Episode 4 "Shift from Programs to Purpose"

In this episode Pastor Trent talks through the shift from programs and busyness to purpose and transformation. He covers some key differences between each thought process and what it looks like to actually equip people to do live out discipleship. He also discusses Jesus' method of discipleship. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:02

Thanks for tuning in, and welcome to the McKinley Avenue Discipleship Podcast. This podcast exists to help form faithful disciples for life, leadership, and living on mission. Hey everyone, welcome back to the podcast. This is episode four of the McKinley Avenue Discipleship Podcast. I'm your host, Trent Duncan. And today we're going to continue our conversation about the shifts churches need to make if we're serious about disciple making.

SPEAKER_00 0:33

And today's shift is this shifting from program to purpose.

SPEAKER_01 0:39

And so the first thing that we have to talk about here is there's a very important question that we have to ask. And so the the sure the third shift churches have to need, or they really need to, they'll have to, but they need to make in fostering a culture of personalized discipleship, is a change from program-based informational environments to hands-on training in relational environments. And so it starts with this foundational question, which is this What is the true role of the church? Is the church primarily a place where we host events? Or is it a people with a purpose? Now, it's true that Jesus preached to large crowds. He fed thousands, he taught publicly, but if we read the gospels carefully, that wasn't his primary disciple-making strategy. His primary method was relational. He walked with people, he talked with them along the roads as they walked from town to town. He corrected them. He modeled what obedience looked like. He held people accountable. And when Jesus said, go and make disciples, he defined the methodology by his own life. And so discipleship wasn't a program on a calendar. It wasn't an event to show up to. It was a purpose woven into everyday relationships and how he lived his life. Now, the difference between programs and purpose need to be talked about. Okay. And now let me be clear: programs aren't evil. I think they have a purpose. But programs without purpose are empty. And so the key difference between biblical relational environments and mere social gatherings is this intentionality.

SPEAKER_00 2:53

And so small groups aren't just about hanging out.

SPEAKER_01 2:59

Okay? They're about more than that. Small groups, life groups, whatever you call them, Sunday school groups. Like they are intentional gatherings centered on the Word of God, led spiritually, led by spiritually mature believers, whose goal is to help others grow as disciples of Jesus. See, discipleship isn't just something we offer. It's not a program we have. Discipleship is ultimately something that we are, right? It's something that we live out. It's part of our lifestyle. And so I love what Paul says here in 1 Corinthians 9.22. And we use 1 Corinthians 9.22 for our core value that we call adaptability. And Paul says this in 1 Corinthians 9.22 and 23. He says, To the weak, I became weak that I might win the weak. I have become all things to all people that by all means I might save some. I do it all for the sake of the gospel. I love that. It shows Paul's purpose. It shows that he had purpose. And ultimately, I think that shows our purpose in making disciples. Paul wasn't just checking a box. He was intentional in building relationships. Why? Because he knew that through those relationships, he gained the ability to love people well, but also part of loving people well is challenging them as Christians to grow in their faith. And so when Paul he says to the weak, I became weak that I might win the weak. Like Paul, he chose not to exercise Christian liberties, Christian freedoms. Why? So that he wouldn't create barriers. Like he refused financial support in Corinth because it might have confused new believers. Okay. Now that's that's relational sacrifice. But he didn't refuse financial support from other churches because he knew that they could handle it. And here's the point disciple making isn't about asserting your rights. It's about laying them down for the sake of the relationship. Now, it's about meeting people where they are. Now, I'm not saying that we should be compromising truth, but I think adjusting, adjusting our approach so that the gospel can land clearly, so that it can be understood, so they can be seen, so it can be lived out, so they could be reproduced, just like Jesus. So, like even though he preached to crowds, most of the time Jesus didn't preach to crowds. Oftentimes, when he had a big crowd, he would say something, and the crowd would be removed, and he would be left with the twelve, the disciples, right? His faithful ones. And even then, sometimes he would thin the herd, so to speak, from twelve to three. You had Peter, James, and John. And so, like it's about laying our freedoms down for the sake of relationships. And so, like, even though Jesus preached to crowds, most of the time he spent with a handful, a small handful of the disciples.

SPEAKER_00 7:23

So we have to ask the question, like, why? I think this is the answer. Because transformation happens in proximity.

SPEAKER_01 7:37

And that's why the word of God, the spirit of God, and the people of God are all as central in the command to make disciples.

SPEAKER_00 7:50

Okay?

SPEAKER_01 7:51

Like the word shapes us, the spirit empowers us, the people of God sharpens us. Iron sharpens iron, right? It's like we don't gather because we think that we have something impressive to offer. We gather because the Spirit of God and the Word of God shows us that relational environments centered on the Word have the power to transform lives.

SPEAKER_00 8:23

And the power doesn't come from a program. The power comes from God. And so the group is simply just an environment. It's like, what do we actually equip people to do?

SPEAKER_01 8:44

Right? We talk about making disciples. Christ's final command should be our first work, right? And so, like, what do we actually equip people to do? What does it mean to equip the saints for the work of the ministry? Like, if if we follow Jesus' method, then we should ask three questions. The first one is this what did Jesus do?

SPEAKER_00 9:08

The second is, how do I replicate that in my life? And the third is, what do I teach others to do? And really what we can do is we can we can summarize this in in four words. Okay. And the first word is is share. Okay. Share. Share what? Share. The gospel. I love First Corinthians chapter 15, verse 3. And so let me let me read that to you.

SPEAKER_01 9:59

It's it's verse 3, and I it goes all the way through verse 4. For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the scriptures, that he was buried, and that he was raised on the third day in accordance with scriptures. Like what a concise yet beautiful picture of the gospel. Like that is the most concise place that I have found in Scripture that presents the gospel. And so the Bible says that if we believe it in our heart and we confess it with our mouths that God is, that Jesus is Lord, and that we believe that God raised him from the dead, we will be saved. And so those two verses right there give a very easy conversational gospel presentation. So like we should share the gospel, right? We should share in discipleship because discipleship ultimately begins in love. And Jesus said, people will know that we belong to him, that we are his disciples by our love for one another. The second word, connect. Connect, right? Like as Christians, as members of this faith community, we should be connecting with one another, right? There's no such thing as Lone Ranger Christians. There's no solo Christians in the New Testament. Jesus didn't send them out one by one. Jesus sent them out two by two. And so Jesus said that people will know that we belong to him by our love, but even then, we're not going to be alone. Because following Jesus requires community. I think of the Bible verse in Hebrews chapter 10, verse 25, forsake not the gathering of the saints, as is the habit of some. And so, like, we need other people to stir us up, to encourage us, to carry us sometimes, for us to carry them sometimes, and and ultimately allows us to connect and relate to one another and love each other and and connect, not just on our thoughts or our feelings or our opinions or things that go together, but we're really connecting under the name and the authority of the headship of Christ. And so He is the head, we are the body of the church. And so we should share, we should connect. Third, minister. So as we grow as believers in Christ, we go from growing to serving, right? We begin to use our gifts to bless other people. And we minister, we're performing ministry through using our gifts as we grow and as we serve other believers. And so it's important because I think sometimes we think that we pay pastors for vocational full-time ministry, and that's it. I'm doing ministry. I'm part of the ministry. Or I send money to a missionary and never meet him. That's me doing ministry. And yes, yes, it is doing ministry. Yes, that it's important for ministry. It's a very important aspect, but ministry wasn't just something to be donated to, it was something to be lived out. And so this brings us to the fourth word. So we have share first, second connect, third minister, fourth disciple. A disciple isn't a disciple until they are a disciple maker. And so, like eventually, mature disciples become intentional, not just in their own growth, but in helping other people grow. And this happens not by accidentally loving people, but by purposefully investing in other people.

SPEAKER_00 13:52

And so you could really say that's purpose-driven discipleship. That's purpose-driven discipleship.

SPEAKER_01 14:05

And so disciple making really is something that doesn't just bless us, but it also blesses other people. So really, disciple making blesses both people, both the one who is discipling and the one who is being discipled, the disciple er and the disciple e, if you will. And so, like Paul, he says, he does all of this. Remember what he said? For the sake of the gospel that I might, that I may share in its blessings. So disciple making blesses the one being discipled, but it also blesses the disciple maker. So Robbie Gallity, he uses this phrase when he's talking about uh the Beatitudes in Matthew chapter five. He talks about blessed are, right? We hear those statements, the blessed are, blessed are, blessed are, blessed are. And he talks about this, he uses this phrase of being blessable. And and when he talks about, he's he's really talking about it being a heart posture. Uh it's a posture, like if like, are we receptive to the Holy Spirit? Like if the Holy Spirit is moving and and directing our lives and encouraging us to do something, like are we receptive or have we already given our answer of no thanks. I don't want to do that. Are we open to conviction? Are we open to the Holy Spirit revealing something in our hearts that isn't healthy, that isn't surrendered to Jesus, that isn't right, something like maybe we feel like, well, I'll just keep this little bit of humanity to myself. I'll keep this little bit of sinfulness to myself. Are we open to actually being convicted by the Holy Spirit? Are we meek? What does meekness mean?

SPEAKER_00 16:04

Robbie defines it as power under control. I define it as gentleness plus kindness equals humility.

SPEAKER_01 16:16

So like it's gentleness and kindness under control equals meekness, right? And so gentleness plus kindness equals meekness. And gentleness requires power under control. So spiritual maturity, uh, I think. Sorry, another question. Are we hungry for righteousness? Do we hunger and thirst for righteousness? Are we hungry for the things that God says that we should be hungry for? Like, does orthodoxy lead to orthopraxy? Does right teaching lead to right living? Ideally, it should. But that's only goes back to the receptive question. Only if we're receptive to the Spirit, only if we're open to the conviction, only, right, if we're meek, for gentleness and kindness, power under control, then we can receive the correction of the Holy Spirit. Then we can feel that conviction, and that will cause us to be more hungry for righteousness. See, spiritual maturity requires both experiencing the love of Christ and expressing that love to other people.

SPEAKER_00 17:34

It's kind of hard to imagine that someone who has truly been transformed by Jesus and yet has no desire to help other people grow. Think about it.

SPEAKER_01 17:49

And maybe we've all understood this before or seen it before, like, but it's hard to imagine someone who's truly been transformed by the grace and the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ, and they don't have a desire to help other people grow. I just don't see that in Scripture. Everywhere I in Scripture, what I see is someone who is radically transformed by Jesus, and they're not the same. Because I think this mature love multiplies. Okay. Like, and here's something encouraging. Like, Jesus doesn't send us out alone. He sent the de the apostles, the disciples out two by two. But, okay, when when we put our faith and our trust in Jesus, the Holy Spirit comes to dwell within us. All right. So, like wherever we go, he goes with us. Okay. And and and we never graduate from relationship with Christ. Like sometimes relationships change from mentor to co-laborer, but but we never outgrow the need for encouragement and accountability. And the Lord's Spirit remains in us. We abide in him. And as Jesus said, if we abide in him and he in us, we will bear much fruit. The real shift from program to purpose, we have to think of it this way. The church must move beyond a complex display of activities and prioritize a clear, simple discipleship process.

SPEAKER_00 19:35

More programs can support more purpose. Okay. More programs can support more purpose, but they must never replace it.

SPEAKER_01 19:57

And more programs don't necessarily equal more maturity. Clarity produces maturity. Intentionality produces growth. Purpose produces fruit. And programs support purpose, but they never replace it. Because the goal is never busyness. The goal is never do more things just to be doing more things.

SPEAKER_00 20:21

The goal is this. The goal is transformation. The goal is transformation. And so the the church. The church is not called to manage schedules. The church is called to make disciples. And that means that we have to move from just having programs to intentionally moving with purpose. And so, like, this week, evaluate one thing going on in your life that you're doing or you're a part of, or whatever. And ask yourself this. Is this thing helping me intentionally make disciples? Or is this just keeping me busy? Is this helping me intentionally make disciples? Or is this just Keeping me busy.

SPEAKER_01 22:07

And I would encourage you to pray about it and listen in your Bible reading and in your quiet time with the Lord, like listen to what the Lord has to tell you. And if He's telling you that you're busy, then I I think we honestly have to reevaluate our quiet time with the Lord. I think we have to reevaluate what we're doing. And I think it's not like we have to cut that out to jump straight into something else. But I think we like maybe maybe slowly walk that thing, whatever it is, back until it is gone.

SPEAKER_00 22:48

And then like wait on the Lord to show you the next thing that he wants you to replace from all the busyness.

SPEAKER_01 23:03

And so shifting from programs to purpose, you know, I I think sometimes this is a hard thing for us to do. I think sometimes we we get caught in the trap of immediate gratification, especially in the Western hemisphere of Christianity. And I think that when we get caught in the idea that we have to do things to quote unquote keep the paying customer happy, or or we feel like we have to do these things to keep momentum, or we can't ever cancel service because, well, that's unspiritual, or it looks less biblical, or it looks less not probably not less biblical, but or maybe canceling service makes us look like we're not doing our job, right? I think when we feel like we can't cancel, or we can't do this, or we can't do that, and we see that it is scriptural, but we feel like we can't do it because we might lose momentum, or we might this or we might that.

SPEAKER_00 24:07

Now, this is not good leadership advice per se, but it is good advice for someone who surrendered to Jesus. And and I think this, I think I think that when we feel like we can't cancel because of momentum, that's when we're trying to do it out in our power and not God's power. In the leadership realm, I'd say if you have momentum, keep trucking along not to lose momentum. But but here's what I know.

SPEAKER_01 24:46

So what I just said. If we're if we feel like we can't lose momentum, then we're doing it out of our strength, not God's strength.

SPEAKER_00 24:52

Because if the momentum is coming from God's strength, not that it doesn't matter what we do, but God would not let the momentum die if it's a move of God.

SPEAKER_01 25:08

And so I think that's an important distinction, and I think it's something that we we kind of wrestle with back and forth, right, as church leaders sometimes. Are we allowed to to not have this service for for this night? Is it going to hurt our attendance? Is it gonna throw people off the rhythm? Is it gonna affect, negatively affect the next time we have service? And I think sometimes when we when we worry more about those things, then we worry about, am I honoring the Lord?

SPEAKER_00 25:47

Is he reproducing these things in my life? What is he showing me? Where do I need to slow down? Where do I need to be more intentional?

SPEAKER_01 25:57

And we don't ask ourselves those those tough questions like that. I think it leads us to a place where we're doing things, and we think that the goal is busyness, we think the goal is big church budget, we think the goal is a lot of people in attendance, and we miss the fact that the real goal is life transformation.

SPEAKER_00 26:18

Are people being transformed by the gospel? Because of my representation of the gospel to them. Are they being transformed by the gospel?

SPEAKER_01 26:32

Because I have shown them how to read God's word. I've shown them how to eat from God's word, I've shown them this is what it looks like to fall in love with God's word and to read it in a way that leaves us full. And so thanks for listening today. If this episode challenged or encouraged you, share it with someone who's passionate about discipleship. And as always, let's keep pursuing Christ-likeness together. We'll see you all next time.

SPEAKER_02 27:12

Hey, thanks for tuning in to the McKinley Avenue Discipleship Podcast. Uh, we hope that this episode has been helpful for you and has helped form you as a faithful disciple of Jesus Christ.